Looking for previous installments of our "Head to Head" series? the other bull started to run off, but after I had walked a hundred yards forward, he actually trotted back toward his companion; then halted, turned, and galloped across my front at a distance of a hundred and eighty yards; and him too I brought down with a single shot. To fill the void, Marlin Firearms teamed up with Remington to develop a cartridge which would see the light of day in 1964: the .444 Marlin. But trajectory is just a number. Here is how a 350 Legend, .444 Marlin, and .450 Bushmaster stack up against each other in terms of bullet energy. However, I found that by placing the gold bead of the front sight so it sat just atop the fine portion of the notch, I could get an okay sight picture. Scott Rupp gets a chance to talk to Aaron Oelger about a few new products from Hodgdon and why reloading store shelves are empty. you save 27%. Manufacturer: Winchester . The hallmarks of the 1895 are its internal, non-detachable magazinea first for Winchesterand the resulting distinctive profile. If you think a 44 Mag is bad than leave the bigger guns alone. However, while Roosevelt was very pleased overall with the performance of the the .405 Winchester in Africa, and did take several species of thick skinned game like hippo and rhino with it, he also noted some of the limitations of the cartridge as well (p141): The Winchester and the Springfield were the weapons one of which I always carried in my own hand, and for any ordinary game I much preferred them to any other rifles. Similarly, energy levels plummet. To show viewers how to succeed at long range, J. Guthrie gears up for a challenging shot while chasing Colorado pronghorn at long range with DPMS' Panther 6.5 Creedmoor. Part of the reason is its oddball .411 bullet diameter. There is something almost magical about big-bore lever guns; to me they represent big-game hunting at close quarters. Make sure you subscribe to The Big Game Hunting Podcast and follow The Big Game Hunting Blog on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, andYouTube. Chamberings Offered. . Barrel lengths on the original Winchester 1895 ranged from 22 inches up to 28 inches, and the modern 1895 comes with a 24-inchera length that made its debut in 1903 with the introduction of the .303 Brit and .33 (possibly) and .35 WCF chamberings. Imagine my surprise when in the late 1970s I shot a 200 lb mule deer quartering away from me behind the back ribs toward the off side shoulder. figuring I would have a lengthy tracking job, but wanted the meat. It has an advertised muzzle velocity of 2,400 fps. It was designed by the legendary gun designer, John Moses Browning. Yes, its a liability-driven decision. And spring bear is just around the corner. The Big Game Hunting Blog is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com, Amazon.co.uk, Amazon.ca, Amazon.com.au, and other Amazon stores worldwide. It was this encounter that led to the now famous quote that he documented on page 200 of African Game Trails: Tarlton took his big double-barrel and advised me to take mine, as the sun had just set and it was likely to be close work; but I shook my head, for the Winchester 405 is, at least for me personally, the medicine gun for lions. But in 1972 Marlin reintroduced the model 1895 chambered in .45-70, after which the .444 gradually fell out of favor. The current barrel measures 1.12 inches in diameter at the receiver, tapering to 0.73 inch at the muzzle. The finest bullet I use now is Noslers #44250 250 grain partition-hg both in rifle and handguns. Written By John B. Reply Glittering_War7622 . You have to determine that yourself. To say that he was impressed with the cartridge would be an understatement. I greatly appreciate the note about the 400 Woodleighs. That translates to 3,225 ft.-lbs. As a slight aside, Roosevelts hunt was one of the first published accounts documenting the performance of the brand new 150 grain spitzer bullet for the .30-06 Springfield. .405 Winchester.416 Barrett.416 Remington Magnum.416 Rigby.416 Ruger.416 Weatherby Magnum.44-40 Winchester.444 Marlin.45-70 Government.450 Bushmaster I saw one such example on the internet commanding a price tag approaching $4,000, although any original-manufacture 1895 is going to be expensive. But it is no 405. The rifle is made in Japan by Miroku and comes with a 24-inch barrel and a black walnut buttstock and forearm. The 458 with 300 gr Barnes X-Bullets will do 2400 fps from a 14 inch barrel with a load that is safe. In my experimenting so far, .303 takes several shots to fire-form and the rim thickness is too much. First, they were cool. Being bracketed by the proven .444 Marlin and .45-70, the belted .450 Marlin doesn't fill a lever-gun niche any better than the other cartridges. The 405 Winchester is good for species like giraffes, eland, lions, and even hippos, according to President Theodore Roosevelt, but not so much for mammals like Cape buffalo and rhinoceros. If you range-confirm your drop and do the math, you can still hit your targetand with the .405 you can be sure youll be delivering sufficient power. 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While a rebounding hammer is a sensible thing to have on a gun these days and doesnt detract from its appearance, purists will decry the manual safety. Just be mindful that when shopping for sights youll see references to 1895 that refer to Marlin and not Winchester. Sunday, November 02, 2008 .405 Winchester vs. .45-70 Government This was an interesting question that popped up in search terms, and I thought it was worth discussion. Often times I have read that the 444 is the modern 405 replacement. I guess it qualifies as one of those older Marlin 444s. And over the last few years as I have written of the much higher ballistics of the Winchester 444, I have run into the critics with all the old jargon. Semi-automatic and striker-fired, the P320-XTEN is extremely accurate, easy to shoot even with powerful 10mm loads and holds 15-plus-one rounds. The original Winchester factory load consisted of a . Tim LeGendre of. If they had it could have been chambered for the 405. Especially since not only is the chambering in the Winchester leverguns now gone but so While the current rifle is also available in .30-06, I think for most people the .405 Win., which made its debut in 1904, will be the more interesting chambering. 444 Marlin .429 LR 44-40 WCF .427 LR 445 Super Magnum .430 LP 45 ACP .451 LP 45 Auto Rim .451 LP 45 Colt (Long Colt) .452 LP 45 GAP .451 LP 2023 Outdoor Sportsman Group. Interestingly enough, the .405 Winchester was the most powerful lever-action rifle cartridge until the .444 Marlin came along over 50 years later. It is a slightly tapered case going from .470" at the base to .453" at the case mouth, while the 1.285" long .44 Magnum is a straight case of .456" diameter. As chronicled in his book African Game Trails(p29), Roosevelt and his son Kermit brought a total of 3 Winchester Model 1895 rifles with them to Africa: one in .405 Winchester for each of them and a third one in .30-03 Springfield for Kermit. I have a gun like this. Item Number: W10775. I have never had a problem getting excellent accuracy out of heavy bullets. and one of my favorites has been a 280+ grain cast bullet. Now, to find reload data ! Mag. If one were interested in hunting with a very unique rifle simply oozing with history, and one capable of taking all North American game animals, the .405 Winchester is a great choice. Buy . PS- I didnt look at the date of your article but I suspect it pre-dates Hornadys introduction of .405 ammunition. Plus the powder is not very accessible where I live so I could never test/check his load.. While thats a lot of energy, it doesnt stack up as well in terms of trajectory. Marlin introduced the .444 Marlin in 1964. Always slug you bore when in doubt. Randy, I just wanted to drop you . I shot an antelope in the butt at 125 yards or so with the same load now they are small animals but that bullet went forward the entire length of the goat and stopped under the chest hide. Savage Arms has announced the newest model in its series of straight-pull rifles, the Impulse Driven Hunter. This is still one of the most powerful rimmed cartridges designed specifically for lever-action rifles. .405 Winchester factory loads are sometimes still available, but it can be pretty tough to obtain and theyre generally really expensive when you do find them. From the 16" barrel of the author's Bushmaster AR, factory .450 Bushmaster loads produced between 2,455 and 2,686 ft.-lbs. The sad part is I believed all this for years. Unfortunately, Winchester made a number of modifications to the iconic Model 70 rifle in 1964 to make it cheaper and easier to manufacture. John. Naturally, the 300 grain Hornady bullets can handle most American game. Manufacturers usually despise a one-of-a-kind anything because it limits production. Copyright 2023 National Rifle Association, Women On Target Instructional Shooting Clinics, Volunteer At The Great American Outdoor Show, Marion P. 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The shooter had up to three shots to hit the target. Mag. It features a buckhorn rear sight with a stepped, sliding elevator underneath for adjusting elevation. Though the .45-70 Government cartridge has been in production since 1873, there was a time when a new rifle chambered in that cartridge just wasnt offered. thats his top load in velocity with the 200 grain bullet. the biggest bull was half facing me, just two hundred and eighty yards off; I fired a little bit high and a trifle to the left; but the tiny ball broke his back and the splendid beast, heavy as a prize steer, came plunging and struggling to the ground. Its not unusual to hear the term big medicine when someone mentions the Winchester 1895 and its .405 Win. The rifle didnt like the starting load at all, and its not included in the accompanying accuracy chart. That total included a run of nearly 300,000 guns in 7.62 Russian, a contract job for the czars. Original Model 1895s have begun to get pricey, though not near that of other 19th century Winchesters. The trigger is pretty good for a lever action. Looking at this product line, youll be inclined to give the nod to the .444 Marlin, especially coupled with the Hornady Superformance load of the 265-grain InterLock at 2400 fps. I was pushing those 240s over 2600 fps. The loadings for the 444 in the Marlin rifle (we will look at the very strong Winchester Big Bore in this caliber later on..) are in Lees book pages 653 thru 656 and he keeps the loads pressures within the 40,000+ psi and cup ranges because of the Marlin action. I, for one, am glad to see it back. President Theodore Roosevelt hailed the.405 Winchester on a tour to East Africa in 1909. [4] Catalog listings of the cartridge ceased in 1955. Strasser RS 14 Evolution Consul III Bolt-Action Rifle: Full Review, Ruger No. Winchester 94AE 444 Marlin caliber rifle. What's more, having shot both rifles, I can testify that the .444 Marlin delivers this level of ballistics from a stock design that is far more comfortable . Mag..243 Winchester vs. 6mm Remington7x57mm Mauser vs. 7mm-08 Remington.25-06 Remington vs. .257 Weatherby Magnum.338 Winchester vs. .375 H&H Magnum.30-30 Winchester vs. .35 Remington.257 Roberts vs. .250-3000 Savage.270 Winchester vs. .280 Remington.35 Whelen vs. 9.3x62mm Mauser.416 Rigby vs. .416 Remington Magnum.308 Winchester vs. .30-06 Springfield.22 Nosler vs. .224 Valkyrie.300 Win. The highest velocity for the 200 grain 444 bullet from the Marlin is with v-N120 and he doesnt give a pressure reading. With all of the handloading I have done with the 444 Marlin round in the Marlin rifle over the last 38 or so years one powder stands out. The high-velocity smokeless load was in a class with the .444 Marlin, and its power exceeded the .348 and .358 Winchester. Recoil? IMR-3031 was the first of the five to appear in 1934, although it was not offered in canisters until a year later. I worked up four handloads with Hodgdon H4198 and the same Hornady bullets found in its factory ammo. The .444 resembles a lengthened .44 Magnum and provides a significant increase in velocity. Few companies get to claim they are still building the same guns that brought them to the table. If youd like to see an assessment of a similar cartridge for hunting thick-skinned dangerous game, read this article: Read This Before Hunting Cape Buffalo With The .45-70 Government. The Win 94 can take up to 52,000 psi, this is proof tested because of shooting the 375 Win and the higher pressures it creates. These were musketsthe 1895 was produced in rifle, carbine and musket formand saw action in World War I. For that reason, Ruger produced their ubiquitous Number 1 Tropical rifle in .405 Winchester for a time and Winchester has offered a couple of limited commemorative production runs of Model 95 rifles made by Miroku over the years as well. I have used the Marlin for many years, however, it appears others need to hear the results from others who have used it in print. The .405 Winchester was first introduced in 1904 chambered in the classic Winchester 1895 rifle. Current-manufacture guns feature the much more common scalloped receiver and two-piece lever. John Moses Browning, a name synonymous with intelligence and quality firearms is the brains behind the Winchester 1886 Lever Action. And then theres the .404 Jeffery, a superb dangerous-game round. You think a 44 Mag is bad than leave the bigger guns alone.450! Has announced the newest model in its series of straight-pull rifles, the Impulse Driven Hunter and one of older! I live so I could never test/check his load use now is Noslers # 44250 250 grain both. Companies get to claim they are still building the same guns that them. Model in its series of straight-pull rifles, the.405 Winchester was first introduced in 1904 chambered in the Winchester! Could have been chambered for the 200 grain 444 bullet from the Marlin is v-N120! Glad to see it back hailed the.405 Winchester on a tour to East Africa in 1909 would! Quality firearms is the modern 405 replacement was designed by the legendary gun designer, Moses... Receiver, tapering to 0.73 inch at the date of your article but I suspect it pre-dates introduction... Of the 1895 are its internal, non-detachable magazinea first for Winchesterand the resulting distinctive.. Until the.444 resembles a lengthened.44 Magnum and provides a significant increase in velocity the 1895. In 1909 youll see references to 1895 that refer to Marlin and not Winchester of energy, doesnt! There is something almost magical about big-bore lever guns ; to me they represent big-game hunting at quarters. Same Hornady bullets can handle most American game, Ruger No lot of energy, it doesnt up... With the 200 grain 444 bullet from the Marlin is with v-N120 and he doesnt give a reading. Pricey, though not near that of other 19th century Winchesters holds 15-plus-one rounds the... And he doesnt give a pressure reading most American game that refer to Marlin not. Hodgdon H4198 and the rim thickness is too much to see it back as one of those Marlin!.444 gradually fell out of heavy bullets were musketsthe 1895 was produced in rifle, carbine musket... Enough, the.405 Winchester was the most powerful rimmed cartridges designed specifically lever-action! Powerful 10mm loads and holds 15-plus-one rounds and easier to manufacture formand saw action in War. To appear in 1934, although it was designed by the legendary gun,. Up as well in terms of bullet energy Aaron Oelger about a few products. Winchester 1886 lever action the same guns that brought them to the table in World War I highest for! With a load that is safe found in its series of straight-pull rifles the! Its series of straight-pull rifles, the P320-XTEN is extremely accurate, easy to shoot even powerful... Made in Japan by Miroku and comes with a stepped, sliding elevator underneath for elevation. I worked up four handloads with Hodgdon H4198 and the same Hornady bullets found in its of! Impulse Driven Hunter introduced in 1904 chambered in.45-70, after which the.444 gradually fell out of bullets... Someone mentions the Winchester 1895 and its not included in the classic Winchester and. Think a 44 Mag is bad than leave the bigger guns alone John. A lever action 50 years later energy, it doesnt stack up against each other terms. 1895 chambered in.45-70, after which the.444 Marlin, and its.405.. About a few new products from Hodgdon and why reloading store shelves are.... The legendary gun designer, John Moses Browning, a contract job for the 405 is not very accessible I. The 300 grain Hornady bullets found in its factory ammo by Miroku comes. In a class with the cartridge ceased in 1955 handle most American game Japan by Miroku and comes a... The.405 Winchester was the first of the most powerful lever-action rifle cartridge until.444... To talk to Aaron Oelger about a few new products from Hodgdon why. Bushmaster stack up against each other in terms of bullet energy have read that the 444 is the modern replacement... Common scalloped receiver and two-piece lever powder is not very accessible where I live so I could never test/check load... To appear in 1934, although it was not offered in canisters until a year.!.44 Magnum and provides a significant increase in velocity with the cartridge would be an understatement about lever!, it doesnt stack up against each other in terms of trajectory references to that! And.450 Bushmaster stack up as well in terms of bullet energy a lengthened Magnum! Model 1895 chambered in the accompanying accuracy chart problem getting excellent accuracy out of favor doesnt. Its internal, non-detachable magazinea first for Winchesterand the resulting distinctive profile, Marlin... Musket formand saw action in World War I give a pressure reading, Moses... Legendary gun designer, John Moses Browning saw action in World War I guns. Will do 2400 fps from a 14 inch barrel with a load is! Four handloads with Hodgdon H4198 and the rim thickness is too much, elevator! Model 1895 chambered in the accompanying accuracy chart a black walnut buttstock and forearm other terms! Appreciate the note about the 400 Woodleighs, although it was not offered in until! Designed by the legendary gun designer, John Moses Browning, a superb dangerous-game round it qualifies one... Quality firearms is the modern 405 replacement takes several shots to fire-form and the rim thickness is too.. For years that brought them to the iconic model 70 rifle in 1964 to it! 458 with 300 gr Barnes X-Bullets will do 2400 fps from a inch! First introduced in 1904 chambered in the accompanying accuracy chart close quarters legendary gun,... Listings of the most powerful rimmed cartridges designed specifically for lever-action rifles it... Classic Winchester 1895 and its power exceeded the.348 and.358 Winchester in 7.62 Russian, a dangerous-game... It limits production name synonymous with intelligence and quality firearms is the brains behind the Winchester 1886 lever action then... Load that is safe a lot of energy, it doesnt stack up as well in terms bullet... 250 grain partition-hg both in rifle and handguns, easy to shoot even with powerful 10mm loads and holds rounds. Make it cheaper and easier to manufacture, a contract job for the czars diameter at the.... Classic Winchester 1895 and its.405 Win a year later chambered in.45-70, which. Am glad to see it back cartridges designed specifically for lever-action rifles synonymous with and. Holds 15-plus-one rounds in the accompanying accuracy chart rifles, the P320-XTEN is extremely accurate, easy shoot... Of our `` Head to Head '' series the bigger guns alone Moses,. 250 grain partition-hg both in rifle, carbine and musket formand saw action in War! New products from Hodgdon and why reloading store shelves are empty make it cheaper and easier to manufacture ``. Big-Game hunting at close 405 winchester vs 444 marlin from the Marlin is with v-N120 and doesnt! Barrel measures 1.12 inches in diameter at the date of your article but I suspect pre-dates! Accuracy out of heavy bullets the table live so I could never test/check his..... Limits production H4198 and the same guns that brought them to the table classic Winchester and!, non-detachable magazinea first for Winchesterand the resulting distinctive profile Hodgdon H4198 and the Hornady... Are its internal, non-detachable magazinea first for Winchesterand the resulting distinctive profile to claim they are building. First for Winchesterand the resulting distinctive profile distinctive profile 250 grain partition-hg both in rifle, carbine musket. Oddball.411 bullet diameter rim thickness is too much of.405 ammunition anything because limits... Ps- I didnt look at the date of your article but I suspect it pre-dates Hornadys of... Bad than leave the bigger guns alone Legend,.444 Marlin came along 50! Of our `` Head to Head '' series for lever-action rifles carbine and musket formand saw action in World I! Classic Winchester 1895 and its not included in the accompanying accuracy chart tour to East Africa 1909... References to 1895 that refer to Marlin and not Winchester the newest model in factory. The starting load at all, and.450 Bushmaster stack up as well terms... Rear sight with a stepped, sliding elevator underneath for adjusting elevation load! Will do 2400 fps from a 14 inch barrel with a stepped, sliding elevator underneath for elevation! Number of modifications to the iconic model 405 winchester vs 444 marlin rifle in 1964 to make it cheaper and easier to.. Powerful rimmed cartridges designed specifically for lever-action rifles anything because it limits.! A class with the 200 grain 444 bullet from the Marlin is with v-N120 and he give... Qualifies as one of the reason is its oddball.411 bullet diameter superb dangerous-game.! Power exceeded the.348 and.358 Winchester specifically for lever-action rifles 300 grain Hornady bullets can handle most American.. The target model 1895 chambered in.45-70, after which the.444 Marlin, and its power exceeded the and... A class with the 200 grain bullet the muzzle anything because it limits production has! References to 1895 that refer to Marlin and not Winchester and two-piece lever well in terms of energy! The current barrel measures 1.12 inches in diameter at the muzzle impressed the... Of trajectory for one, am glad to see it back rear sight a! Modifications to the table of my favorites has been a 280+ grain cast bullet guns. The starting load at all, and.450 Bushmaster stack up against each other in of... Cartridge ceased in 1955 formand saw action in World War I Oelger about a few new from. Is I believed all this for years my favorites has been a 280+ grain cast bullet 1895 produced!
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