He has been married to Jill for more than 59 years and has three children and 13 grandchildren. So if you think of Willow as being a living thing, we are willing to put other things to death on the altar of preserving that organism. And I think there is a healthy fear. Then, I did what all good Christian college students did at that time I acquired a boot-leg copy of the drama and listened to it several times on my own. Right. Like they didnt read a book, figuring out how to do it, but there are warning signs that people need to be aware of. Who hasnt given a friend a friendly kiss once in awhile? Absolutely horrible. I will always have my faith in Jesus but church especially WCCC has been a huge disappointment. It is also the church in which Pete Briscoe, my former wonderful pastor, grew up in. Im Julie Roys. Glad that Jesus is still our anchor! People can do the job of preaching and leading a church for, you know, 40 plus weeks in the pulpit at a church of this size. The Journal Sentinel reported: Elmbrook resignations are the latest to rock evangelical Christian churches. He even cites a conversation with Darrell Bock, a member who disagrees with the elders but who also says it is not an issue worth dividing over. Thats a rhetorical question. And Hybels said, essentially, Yeah, well, well do it that way. And Clinton showed up and then didnt comply with anything that the board had said. About Stuart and Jill Briscoe Im doing well but probably not as well as you because youre on vacation in Florida. Id like to share a few things as we navigate this loss together. However, there should be a bubble level of character in Christ that we return to. He makes sure the good things stay in the church and the bad things go out. And this is a huge problem in the Evangelical Church in the southern baptist church, I mean, just absolutely massive problem where so often the predators covered up instead of brought to justice. And I think it wasnt a problem, Mitch, because everybody always agreed with whatever the senior pastor wanted. And that needs to be an elder in the church really any size, you need to say, Look, I see what youre doing this is wrong. And when the person makes excuses or says, You know, this is a misunderstanding, I didnt mean to, you know, message that kid inappropriately online, or I didnt mean to Invite them to go do something by ourselves out of, you know, trying to do something bad. And its designed to be acretive, right that they gain strength over time. Pete is the son of Jill and Stuart Briscoe. This is a person who is pushing a boundary because they want to do something bad. Subscribe Sign up for my daily email devotionals and to stay in touch! And theyre born knowing how to do that. This person or these people were hurt as a result, you have a pride problem. That goes to the guarding role that Attorney Mitch shared. And he offers keen insights that are desperately needed as many churches today struggle to be healthy and to avoid the mistakes other megachurches have made. Heres to better days and better church health. I would love to see Chicago experience revival. And its so important, I think, for any of us who are doing any kind of ministry at all, if we get our identity wrapped up in what were doing, then what were doing is no longer ministry, its no longer service to the Lord. Very few. But now my faith in the whole institution is shattered. We were fighting asymmetric warfare, right? And if you are not willing to as an organism, or as an organization say, We messed up. In context, I think my meaning becomes clear as I say soon after, agreeing with Mitchs assessment that unanimity is bad: Absolutely horrible. They have a responsibility to the larger church to speak. I think that he lost that. And so when these things happen, they cant just stay silent. Now, I coach pastors and business leaders in communications and self-care. WebLearn More About Pete Today - Pete Briscoe God loves you to distraction, There is nothing you can do to make Him love them more or less, And, that Life with this Lover God is rich beyond description, regardless of your performance. It was like trying to fit a battleship through a set of French doors. Pete Briscoes father, Stuart Briscoe, who I loved dearly, hes not in good health, I wish he was, I wish he could hear this and Id wish him well. And thats what, thats what you end up protecting right? I was the senior pastor of Bent Tree Bible Fellowship for nearly 30 years. What eventually broke the culture of secrecy and protection? The Roys Report seeks to foster thoughtful and respectful dialogue. Senior pastors dont need advocates. I think its Pat Baranowskis story that ran in the New York Times that actually caused that. Briscoe says that he wants Bent Tree to be a place where people can agree to disagree over this issue. Jill and Stuart came to the States from England. Growing up in a ministry family, Pete watched and learned from his parents and witnessed the reach and power of Telling the Truth 's media outreach. Its designed to be fought asymmetrically. The woman had come forwarded, but then later recanted her story. And I realized that as we were discussing this, that there might be some people who have heard about what happened at Willow Creek, but somewhat superficially, through the headlines and dont really know beneath the surface. But I guess this is the question so many are asking is, Can anybody be in those kind of jobs with the kind of responsibility that is put on one human, one person to lead thousands of people? And so many looking to him for vision for leadership for everything. Mitch is an attorney, a church elder and an advocate for abuse victims. I mean, there were some things that you learned specifically, that were done to potentially cover wrongdoing by Bill Hybels. It involves a level of compartmentalization that is truly stunning. These are people that may be in the cubicle next to you at work, who have an acuity for blending in to normal life. Im against too many lawyers, and I think Im in a position to critique this. And I can only imagine what the economic forces are behind the scenes for that, but it really disappoints me, that that hasnt happened. And this is one of the I think exciting things. Yeah, I think youre gonna be waiting a while. And that set the course for some of these more severe things to continue happening, and then to even get more and more severe. Well, again, Joining me today is Mitch Little a partner with Scheef & Stone in Frisco, Texas. I think it took courage. And basically, my understanding is his cavalier attitude was, Well, Ill just pick up and Ill open a new church down the street [if] you dont you dont like me the way I am.. Why did so many look the other way for so long? That way, youll never miss an episode. The Journal Sentinel reported: Elmbrook resignations are the latest to rock evangelical Christian churches. But he had the emotional and spiritual fortitude to say, You know what? Gifted with wisdom, discernment, and a bit of English humor, the Briscoe's bring God's Word to life. Stuart Briscoe died on August 3 "of natural causes unexpectedly" according to a tweet from his son, Pete Briscoe. Everything started to make sense. And so I hope your listeners understand what I mean, when I say this, thats how good God is that he can use people who are even morally bankrupt, to bring people to himself. And the thing that is astonishing to me, you used the issue of emotional vulnerability is that, you know, a lot of times our strengths are our weaknesses. That night we had a guest speaker come in for a special presentation. I had no idea what to expect as this lone man stood on the stage. https://www.billionbibles.com/voice-of-the-martyrs.html. And so when you know from the pulpit, that might be a strength. Ive even friended a few. WebPete Briscoe, Stuart and Jills youngest son, was a key contributor to the ministrys teaching team from 2003 to 2021. Youve youve created a fiction when you organize church, what is a church organization but a legal fiction, right? JULIE ROYS 23:38, What I meant by that comment is that unanimity didnt create any problems for the board and senior pastor because everyone agreed with James MacDonald. And I still havent been able to get her to visit with me. Today were talking with Pete Briscoe, who served as the senior pastor for nearly three decades at Bent Tree Bible Fellowship in Carrollton, Texas, and now consults with and coaches pastors. God uses the weak things of this world to confound the strong, right? At the end of the day the aftermath of destruction is felt on so many levels by so many people and we all react differently in our humanness. The outside investigation report said something along the lines of, Bill Hybels hundreds or thousands of emails with this woman were, not available. Well, as it turns out my understanding from talking to witnesses, those emails were actually destroyed. I know from hearing from men, that that Bill abused men emotionally, spiritually while they were working there. However, whenever he would do that quavering voice, etc., I would wonder how he could do that for all three identical services? But heres what happened when Scot criticized them publicly. I wasnt throughout the representation. At least, thats how I saw it. Continue Reading The Upper Room: John 15 Posted by Nate Murray That is a very fair question. And so when I looked at that in the context of James MacDonald going, you know what, thats the type of accountability that man needed and was denied. (etc. Lets say you have you have six or eight members who are saying, Guys, we need to fire this person. And there was also a service at WC where the board interviewed him and was he was questioned about an affair. You can read about them at their website Teaching the Truth. Pete reminds us that our goal is not to win arguments, but to win people. There was a period of time, Ill call, The Great Loneliness after that Chicago Tribune article came out, where they were radioactive. What makes you stick with that model and believe it can still be used despite how badly that model has been abused? But when we look at it from some practical ways that God used people to undo this, explain what you see as being the key forces. Thats a bad default state. What I saw happen at Willow is, the board as a unit was willing to dissemble in the amount necessary to preserve the organization. Mike is a dear friend and Im sad this day has come. It is simply to feed ourselves. It is what manifests. The news of Petes resignation landed heavy on my heart. For the next 90 minutes, Pete Briscoe enraptured us with his presentation of The Bema.. And unless theyre pollinated by hand, on the one day that the bloom opens, they wont make anything. So when you have someone who is trusted, whos supposed to be an expert, you know, like a pastor, like a longtime senior pastor whos supposed to be a theological expert, and someone whos in authority like a senior pastor, people are willing to do things to satisfy that person that they would not otherwise do, even if those things seem harmful to another person. ) So, Willows pride did not allow them to see any flaws in their leadership, especially their premier leader. I appreciate your taking time again away from your vacation to spend time with us. I encourage you to start praying again and trust God to open doors for you in godly and meaningful fellowship. This is simply a place where I share the message of Gods unadulterated grace through my preaching sermons and bible teaching. Fellowship, Church family, Community. Jill Yeah, I just saw you ran a story on MacDonalds massive mansion in Illinois being held in the name of Vanilla Bean LLC. And I do think theres a spiritual stronghold, I hope and pray that it will be broken in our area. Then, I did what all good Christian college students did at that time I acquired a boot-leg copy of the drama and listened to it several times on my own. Mitch has seen church governance from both the inside and the outside. But as you say its Gods grace that despite all that hes used these men to bless many, despite everything. The Journal Sentinel reported: Elmbrook resignations are the latest to rock evangelical Christian churches. Again, thanks so much for joining me today. For that we are forever grateful. And that was how Bill deformed his accountability structure. Frankly I find church to be excruciatingly lonely. WebPete Briscoe is a podcaster and evangelical pastor. That nonprofit corporation and its bank accounts, thats not what the biblical church is. (See page 54 and following) Yes, probably a number of your listeners are aware of the situation where the Ortbergs and Mellados had tried to report to the board an alleged long term affair that Bill Hybels was engaged in and the church hired an outside investigator to investigate the situation. You can choose from more than 60 majors and learn in a Christian environment known for its spiritual values, leadership opportunities, and strong financial aid. Many organizations that have a board of directors consisting of yes men or yes women who are inclined to go along with the board chairman and/or are friends with them. We bought the routine and its shocking. I was blown away. WebPete Briscoe, Stuart and Jills youngest son, was a key contributor to the ministrys teaching team from 2003 to 2021. And theres an element to which a church like Willow Creek was a global church, right? This is just the way things are in Corinth. Talk to me about how you saw this playing out at Willow Creek. WebPete Briscoe is a podcaster and evangelical pastor. Vonda was at one time the director of Willow Creeks vocal ministry, and she was one of the first women to come forward and speak publicly about Bill Hybels alleged sexual misconduct. Because they, I mean, they had a massive PR machine they had, they hired Mark DeMoss, his firm to come in and try to resolve things from a PR standpoint. By the way, the best thing that was said in the recording is that if character isnt there, none of the regulations will matter, and if character is there, one doesnt need the regulations. So many people are looking the other way. And he came back and said, I cant do this anymore.. Briscoe We see this is the third article this month youve found worth reading. As a lawyer whos represented some of Bill Hybels victims Mitch Little has seen a side of Willow Creek that few others have. Gifted with wisdom, discernment, and a bit of English humor, the Briscoe's bring God's Word to life. You know, when you have somebody like Bryan Loritts, who when hes talking about why when he was at a former church, he didnt disclose to the church that they had a sexual predator among them for six months. I think it took courage and boldness on his part to be able to do that. Theres, theres an advocacy piece to lawyering that needs to be there a little bit, but it doesnt need to be pervasive. The church said in essence, Tsk, tsk. And yet, when these issues started being raised about Bill Hybels, the larger church, other than you know, a few people you mentioned the Ortbergs, for example, they came forward and spoke. And presented them with the information, he essentially tossed it to the side and said, So what?, No consequences. He even cites a conversation with Darrell Bock, a member who disagrees with the elders but who also says it is not an issue worth dividing over. And the Nancy Ortberg situation, a hug that lasted too long. I dont think that he caused the elder board to resign. Happened so often, I quit altogether. He, Becky and their kids have been part of the fabric of BT for so long, it is And what lessons can we learn from Willow Creeks mistakes? I mean, it was a great time. So whos supposed to hold whos supposed to hold the leaders accountable in that structure? But then its my understanding too, that when these women met with the elders, the level of bullying and abuse that they were subjected to, was such that I know Vonda told me there were elders in tears at the end of this, of how pervasive the abuse was, I dont know how specific you can be but can you give people an idea of, of what actually happened to these women that were abused? Why did so many look the other way for so long? Julie, it is great to be with you again. Pete was preaching from Hebrews, and he was making the New Covenant come alive before all of us. Heres my belief, Julie, I think the church at large, the big leaders in evangelicalism, we can name names if we want to, and Im sure that people have names on their mind when theyre hearing this, Why were they silent? Because it was lawyers advice, you know, and its like, where does the word of God play into our decision making? They show up, they sell books. I learned that from Bill. WebBriscoe says that he wants Bent Tree to be a place where people can agree to disagree over this issue. But essentially, it was the board being asked to deal with matters of policy and then all matters of implementation really get left to the vocational staff in the church. So its more than flirty words or suggestions. As a lawyer whos represented some of Bill Hybels victims, Mitch Little has seen a side of Willow Creek that few others have. And thankyou for all you do in the NAME of JESUS! And theres a lot of people asking, Is that just too great a burden to ever put on one person? How do you respond to that? A man who "dedicated his life to sharing Gods Word with the world" has died at the age of 91. And its pervasive, and people are, theyre using it. Everyone I knew from childhoodparents, grandparents, pastors, Sunday School teacherswas upright and honest. So I was quite taken aback when this scandal came out. So, you know, Julie, its really its death by 1000 cuts. Well, and I hope there are Christian leaders listening to this who take note because is the time of just being silent and thinking that because youre silent, nothing will come back on you, thats past. I dont know. Thank God I have Jesus. WebSince that time he has ministered on every continent, written more than 40 books, pastored a church for 30 years, and founded a media ministry called Telling the Truth which now broadcasts daily worldwide. But we dont have time on this podcast. Theres a lot of church boards that operate that way. Theres another circumstance that I became aware of where The board had a 360 Review done on Hybels and his leadership and some problems they were experiencing with his management style from, you know, bullying, abusive style. Scott Dyer was the worship pastor at Bent Tree Bible fellowship. I think, as believers, we should be standing for truth, we should not look the other way. Great question. WebLearn More About Pete Today - Pete Briscoe God loves you to distraction, There is nothing you can do to make Him love them more or less, And, that Life with this Lover God is rich beyond description, regardless of your performance. He was running and we were praying that he would surrender fully to God. And so, you know, as a lawyer on the board, youre not absolved from the obligation of complying with the mandates of Scripture. And so when you see behaviors that look like grooming, you know, John Calvin, Im not a Calvinist. Its one of the beauties and the deformities of social media is social media is agile. Volunteers monitored the process in real time, turning over cassettes at the appropriate time to record on the second side. So disappointed in ECFA. And if you dont have a character to lead, no manual is going to help you. I know for a fact that his article was circulated among the staff at Willow, and they crossed the Rubicon of credulity. Yeah, thats right. Well, lets talk a little bit about the leadership that protected him because I think that is the question that I keep hearing over and over from folks is, How do we prevent this from happening? Pete Briscoe @petebriscoe 12 Dec 2021. It was a huge fixture in evangelicalism. And yet youre still in a megachurch, multi-site church. What eventually broke the culture of secrecy and protection? It was the summer of 2000, and I was a college student on staff at Pine Cove Christian Camp. You have to have a lead pastor who creates a strong culture of accountability. And it had all of these allies not just in the media, but among the angelical industrial complex, other megachurch pastors, everything. God is doing a new work both in the lives of the Briscoe's and in the life of Bent Tree. Okay. And it turns out there were a lot more women who had been affected by Bill Hybels. How did that all happen? Nobody who is an elder at a church should have any aspect of their identity wrapped up in either the role of being an elder or in the success or failure of the organization. He even cites a conversation with Darrell Bock, a member who disagrees with the elders but who also says it is not an issue worth dividing over. Or what is the church think about Calvinism? something along those lines. Its all a Business and Power tool and stage for Virtue Signaling. He now coaches Pete Briscoe | Brookfield WI. And something else that you mentioned about the board, which I found fascinating was that the Willow Creek board had an awful lot of lawyers on it. WebPete Briscoe, Stuart and Jills youngest son, was a key contributor to the ministrys teaching team from 2003 to 2021. And Im like, Ive never seen a spiritual leader ever, ever have that sort of self disclosure in front of the church before he preaches. Amen. How are you? And another womans situation, theyre in an elder board meeting, and Bill Hybels, you know, has his hand on a womans leg, and no one else can see. What I need most is what I dont have. Yes, in the course of representing these women, it became obvious that this was not what Ill call an echelon or tier leadership problem, just at Bill Hybels level. How do you recommend searching worth while places to donate too? Give a gift of $30 or more to The Roys Report this month, and you will receive a copy of Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse by Dr. Lisa Oakley and Justin Humphreys. They didnt have the ability to move quickly. Pete Briscoe was Senior Pastor of Bent Tree Bible Fellowship in Carrollton, TX for nearly 30 years. And I have other thoughts about that and how that all worked out. So Mitch, thank you so much for taking the time to join me today. He is with us today to talk about growing communication skills to improve preaching as well as how we can find deeper fulfillment in our work and lives. Do we have a theology of goodness at our church? The other thing I wanted to talk to you about in you mentioned this in earlier discussion we had about the identity of elders and how so often, and I dont think its just elders, I think its a lot of the senior pastor leadership and staff that their identity tends to become enmeshed with the success or failure of the organization theyre a part of. Much has been written on establishing criteria for board member selection. Then, I did what all good Christian college students did at that time I acquired a boot-leg copy of the drama and listened to it several times on my own. WebIt is with heavy hearts that the Elders of Bent Tree announce that Pete Briscoe has submitted his resignation as Senior Pastor. How do we deal with claims of sexual abuse? Petes leadership at Bent Tree casts a long shadow with a legacy that will endure. One of those is that you had your senior pastor resign kind of suddenly. I just, Im amazed that they were in such geographic proximity to one another dealing with almost the exact same problem. I know about the deleted emails. Pete Briscoe @petebriscoe 12 Dec 2021. I was the senior pastor of Bent Tree Bible Fellowship for nearly 30 years. In fact, I know some of them. And a lot of us who sat in the congregation and received from them were, you know, duped and we bought it. I hope you have a great day and God bless. And I could explain why I think thats funny, but you have to have extreme accountability, the larger your platform gets. Thats what he was. Just go to BuyACar123.com. And yet here we see a church thats ostensibly about serving God, and its about proclaiming the gospel and yet this is happening within the church. Please know you are not alone. To us, he was Stu, Dad and Poppa and we already miss him achingly." Also, make sure you subscribe to The Roys Report on Apple podcasts or Google podcasts. You can read about them at their website Teaching the Truth. So you caught them before that anything actually happened? Jill In fact, back in the late 80s, early 90s, we went to Willow Creek and we had a wonderful experience. Churches sometimes need advocates outside their system. Vanilla orchids are actually pollinated by hand in most places. How do spot a safe pastorand can. Basically, theyre a rubber stamp. Gifted with wisdom, discernment, and a bit of English humor, the Briscoe's bring God's Word to life. So there were more than 10 women that came forward and said that there was sexual misconduct by Bill Hybels. Understanding & Overcoming Spiritual Abuse, Part II, Understanding & Overcoming Spiritual Abuse, Escaping & Healing from Abusive Churches, Part 2, https://world.wng.org/sites/default/files/issues/pdf/world_sep012018.pdf, https://www.billionbibles.com/voice-of-the-martyrs.html. You know, Willow creeks pastors family members benefit from the Penumbra of Willow Creek and its just sheer size within evangelicalism. One of those women is Vonda Dyer. What Ive told people is, If you are not ready to blow yourself or the organization up in five seconds flat, you need to find a different hobby.. And today Im excited to be speaking with Mitch Little. The church is nondenominational and has woman pastors and elders. I appreciate you so much and look forward to visiting with you again soon. WebIt is with heavy hearts that the Elders of Bent Tree announce that Pete Briscoe has submitted his resignation as Senior Pastor. That has been documented and proven through therapy notes. Youre absolutely right. I mean, you dont need to be trying to fit a round peg into a square hole, because it is gonna manifest itself in bad ways. And I was sitting in my office one day and Vonda picked up the phone and gave me a call and kind of told me what was coming down the pike in terms of the Chicago Tribune article that basically lit the fuse on that entire situation at Willow. And that that was something that taught you an awful lot about how elder board should deal with sexual impropriety or sexual abuse within their own walls. At Bent Tree Bible Fellowship has seen a side of Willow Creek that few others have so... Another dealing with almost the exact same problem Murray that is a like... 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Jill and Stuart Briscoe died on August 3 `` of natural causes unexpectedly '' according a!, was a key contributor to the larger your platform gets, John Calvin, Im amazed that were...
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