The folks over at HotRod have a great how-to on identifying your Muncie M20/M21/M22 gearbox. We'll work to keep you motivated and informed and with industry news, product information and reviews, event coverage, and well-curated articles and stories intended to inspire and educate. You bring the gumption. Check it out here. Your email address will not be published. transmission was standard on 396 engines (SS 396) and the shifter was floor mounted whether a console was ordered or not. Sale items (if applicable)Only regular priced items may be refunded, unfortunately, sale items cannot be refunded. If you do want the OD then the easiest answer is getting another 9" chuck set up with 3.90, or 4.11 gears. Here are some common transmisions with gear charts Saginaw 3 speed 1st 2nd 3rd No lines 2.85 1.68 1.00 1 line 2.54 1.50 1.00 2 lines 3.11 1.84 1.00 3 lines 3.50 1.89 1.00 Click to expand. (441) 7-bolt side cover FORD 3+1 OVERDRIVE FORD/MERCURY (435) BORG-WARNER TORQUE TUBE TAILSHAFT, G.M. Come join the discussion about restorations, builds, performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! Rusty but Rare 1976 Chevy K10 Sport Truck Revival! This is a GM light-duty car transmission used from 1966-1985 model years. Good luck. Hey Greg, as long as its stock, its pretty straightforward. Required fields are marked *. Find "tlowe" or ask this question in Transmission forum. Speedo Gear Chart. Base tranny for GM early 70s would be the Saginaw. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. There are several gear ratios for the Saginaws. 2411932084 Can be used with stock clutch or mini-clutch. What ratio are the rear end gears? FYI if you have a NP440, and your speedo is not calibrated properly, the speedo drive is cut in the mainshaft, the housing can be clocked until the speedo is adjusted properly. from application/x-indesign to application/pdf 350 th350, powerglide, muncie, saginaw transmission speedometer driven gear black 23t 3.55 ratio (3860346) tpd pro-line. Snap On vs Daytona, Pittsburgh, ESCO, Husky, More. 2.030 We had a guy with a '67 Vette that was running a 427 and the 3 speed Muncie in the 70's. No questions yet. By clicking All Cookies you agree to our Cookie Policy, it helps us better understand how the site is used and give you the best experience. The number of times the engine turns past 12:00 to make one revolution of the drive shaft equals your 1 gear ratio. NEVER seen a spec showing the Ford T&C in a mid size GM vehicle. It's already a Corvette Muncie 318 transmission modified to a top shifter (Corvettes were geared a little better, and the Junior Stock guys used to use the Vette gears in the passenger car case. Any info would be . Radio, remote mirror, and radial tires. Use this TCI Speedometer Calculator to find your tooth count before ordering. The T5 was produced in a multitude of gear sets, depending on what application it was intended to serve. Maybe a little more if you pay someone to do the gear swap right. 2016-11-14T15:32:48-08:00 Without OD's 8's had 3.31's and 6's had 3.55's. How important is keeping the overdrive? So how do you tell if its an M20 or M21? 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My velle had been pretty well ran hard and put away wet when i got it in 86. 0 Modify your shift linkage to fit the tranny, use an OD cable for reverse. . Axle Ratio 6T 7T . Mounted on the cover was the reverse shift lever. Here is one of many articles, it is something you have to dig for and have a clue or two. Some products are made to order to spec and will ship once built. I am in the process of swapping the Saginaw in my 64 C10 truck to a Muncie 3-speed that originally came in a 71 Chevelle with big block engine. Identification and ratio information is provide below these groves . Saginaw is probably your best bet. Most common was the 2.42:1 low (same 1st ratio as the Dearborn) but there was also a 3.03:1 low for use on lower torque engines (307-down). The transmissions were cast-iron and stamped with an application code. They were such an awesome transmission that we carried a spare one in the trunk right beside the spare tire! P245/60-14s would drop your engine rpm (@ 65 mph) by around 500 rpms. Go to any Dirt Track Racing Parks and ask them what trans they are using and 99.9% of the time they will say they use Saginaw 3 spd's. Heres a good start. Late or missing refunds (if applicable)If you havent received a refund yet, first check your bank account again.Then contact your credit card company, it may take some time before your refund is officially posted.Next, contact your bank. For 1969 Chevrolet replaced the Warner T-16 with a new Muncie-built h.d. There are 2 Saginaw 3 speeds that come with first gear ratios of 3.11 and 3.50, and there are lots of Saginaws out there. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. The big gear spread between 2nd and 3d seemed to be the largest drawback to the trans. %PDF-1.4 % To complete your return, we require a receipt or proof of purchase. Dearborn 3speed is the nomenclature.Ford 3.03, If you mean the 4-spd overdrive, I believe the ratios were 3.29, 1.67, 1, .81 with the older cast iron box. Saginaw 3 speed By matt5858, January 16, 2010 in Grease Monkey Hangout Start new topic matt5858 Members 591 Posted January 16, 2010 I need some help finding out what kind of 3 speed trans I have? I ran a M-21 in my Big block Chevelle with 3:55 gears. Planning a manual transmission swap in your Chevy or GM vehicle? If you need to exchange it for the same item, send us an email at glnmaurer@circletracksupply.com and send your item to 304 5th Creek Road, Statesville, NC, 28625, United States. 1970 Buick GS455 had it. The difference you are on dirt and usually in high gear. Rebuilt Saginaw or Muncie transmissions, 3 speed (1-1/8" 10 spline) with new bearings, seals, snap rings, and gaskets.. We deliver worldwide and to almost all countries. xmp.id:69f80f3f-c697-4c96-b645-9f21767701f4 With today's power everyone wants to see less than 2000 rpm at 70 mph. HelveticaLTStd-Cond either that or you need your tach recalibrated. Great for any type of race car that require a stock transmission. 312180356 VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. [NOTE: Not every transmission in GMs history is listed here. 2.030 I took mine apart once and used a sag diagram to put it together. He told me he did not feel the need for the extra gear and the 3 speed was an HD out of the truck with the deeper 1st gear to launch the car better, with a cast iron case it was much stronger than the aluminum 4 speeds of the day. Privacy Policy. The first gear ratios are the same for the Saginaw 3 and 4 speed transmissions relative to the grooves on the input shaft. For small-block V-8s, like the 350, the three-speed used 2.54:1, 1.50:1 and 1.00:1. CHART SAGINAW, G.M. notably the Muncie M20 wide ratio, M21 close ratio and M22 rock crusher, and automatic fans had either a two-speed Powerglide from 1964 . TradeGothicLTStd However, 1973-77 Chevy Vegas used a Saginaw tranny with a 3.11 first gear, 2.20 second gear, 1.47 third gear, and the usual 1:1 fourth. May 23, 2013. Come join the discussion about restoration, builds, performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! Helvetica LT Std Learn how your comment data is processed. Adobe Systems Standard Saginaw 3-speed transmission Heavy Duty full synchromesh 3-speed Borg Warner T16 delivered as the standard transmission when the SS 396 series was ordered. 2016-11-14T15:32:50-08:00 Newest [ January 23, 2023 ] Vintage 1980 Yamaha Enticer Snowmobile Revival to Former Glory Roadkill Powersports . It was on its 3d motor, and that one was dead when I got the car. 0 Apparently they did, because I have an issue of a rare Diesel enthusiast magazine called Diesel Digest and it mentions the new 6.2L GM diesel engine in a 1981(?) UnitedItalicCond-Black Please do not send your purchase back to the manufacturer. Click the link! Thats pretty short. 2.020 The four-speed transmission is very similar to the tried-and-true Saginaw three-speed and fits well behind six-cylinder and eight-cylinder engines. Finally caught a break NP440 / MY 6 - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network. Call us at 704-871-0721 to get help with large international orders and we can help manually check the shipping for you. 22-24T .870 diameter gears must be used with a 1.76 OD speedo drive gear. Thanks. Trade Gothic LT Std It has a cast-iron case and extension housing, and a 7 bolt side covers with reverse shift lever on this side cover. Due to this, the box tends to be noiser (whines or howls almost like a blower, which is why it's called a "rock crusher") than other boxes. Trade Gothic LT Std 2-3 days lead time. adobe:docid:indd:8cb252af-65b8-11e0-ab52-c56984a1fdef Saganaw 3 and 4 speed are used mainly in oval and dirt track modified racing. Turn engine over by hand and have a friend look at the driveshaft mark and tell you when it makes 1 revolution. Depending on where you live, the time it may take for your exchanged product to reach you may vary. Identification and ratio information is provide below these groves are typically cut across the clutch spline on the input shaft: 3 Speeds have 4 step cluster gear, all gears helical cut, including reverse with two shifter cams in the side cover. Can be used with stock clutch or mini-clutch. The Muncie also has a 7 bolt side cover; however, the Muncie reverse lever is found in the extension housing and features an aluminum case. If that's the case, then the Saginaw-with just three forward gears-already has a lighter rotating mass than just about any other trans you'll find. My parents were original owners of a 68 GTO with only 3 options. The M-21 has a higher pitch angle on its gear teeth. Bob, how about a VEGA 4-speed, with a 3.11 low? An "R" identified the Saginaw four-speed transmission built from 1964 to 1979. They should be like 4.11 or a little under [3.73] which would give you overall ratio 12.08 in 1st gear and 2.87 in 3rd OD..Lets say your rear tires are 27" diameter, that would give you 2507 rpm @ 70 mph with 4.11 gears..2256 rpm with 3.73 gears giving 2.61 overall in 3rd OD.. You might be able to find a 7 bolt side cover Saginaw 3 speed with lower gears, and they would be quite a bit stronger than the old Muncie 318 transmission you currently have. The close ratio gearboxs generally came with 3.73+ gear ratio'ed cars. rear tire should be somewhere between 29.5 to 31. im thinkin it should be a decent all around setup as there will be alot of highway driving goin on, but i still want a decent bottom end. . My 68 SS396 came with the muncie 3spd in the console. The Saginaw three- and four-speed manual transmissions transmitted engine power to the wheels on General Motors non-performance and mid-range performance cars. sale. The Font Bureau PART NUMBER 1 & 2nd RATIOS, 284TRAN SAGINAW TRANSMISSION 3 SPD 284-168 Ratios-No Line. 2016-11-14T15:32:48-08:00 Our policy lasts 30 days. 1199565182 NEW! Muncie 3-speeds are a good bit more durable than Saginaw 3-speeds. It is a rare application, though. AgencyFB-Regular 1937 Master DeLuxe 2dr sedan, 250 six with 2 deuces and split manifold. Hi there Saginaw 3 & 4 Spd: Transmission Yokes: M5R1 / M5R2: Clutch Packs . Muncie SM420 transmission 4-speed manual used up to 1967, very similar to sm 465 except small changes to gear ratios and location of reverse. 0 Be the first to leave a comment, Sign up for Circle Track Supply, Inc. news. Dont Be That Guy, Reversing Gears ~ Rescuing Ones Own Derelict 1967 Pontiac GTO, How To Paint a Lace Roof on the Cheap Using Grandmas Curtains, Exploring an Antique Junkyard in the Hills of West Virginia, Engine, Transmission, Chassis Swap Donor Vehicle Look-Up, How To Select Proper Rear-End / Differential Gear Ratio, Popular Automatic Transmission Dimensions, Popular Automatic Transmission Identification Chart, Engine / Transmission / Chassis Donor Search, Project Cars and Part Donor Cars For Sale. If 30 days have gone by since your purchase, unfortunately, we cant offer you a refund or exchange. Chevy used a Borg-Warner T-16 for their H.D. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Fred that would be a HM290 trans if it was a V-8 and a smaller version for the 4.3 L V-6. I am sure there are exceptions to this rule., (You must log in or sign up to reply here. $13.88 $17.99. The Saginaw is often mistaken for a Muncie. Automotive Technical and Reference Information, Project Cars, Trucks and Salvage Vehicles For Sale. If I could beat them good in 2nd I'd win the race. Copyright 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. default 2771965578 JavaScript is disabled. application/pdf I am Butch/56sedandelivery. converted Fully synchronized with 30 tooth syncro rings. The four-speed matched with the straight-sixes were 3.11:1, 2.20:1, 1.47-to-1 and 1.00:1. Now coded as MC1 (not M13), it was offered with 2 different ratio sets. Adobe Systems 3500 T 65 mph or so. / Although not used in any Chevrolets as original equipment, the T-85 will replace the weaker Saginaw three-speed with minimal installation problems. Double-check your gear ratios. The Warner T-16 was based on the T-10 4-speed (in actuality the T-10 was based on some Warner h.d. I was shifting into 3rd around town. 0 OpenType - PS VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. 2006 - 2023 Circle Track Supply, Inc.. All rights reserved. Saginaw M26/27 transmission 3 and 4-speed longitudinal light duty (less than 300 hp) wide ratio manual transmission made by GM at their Saginaw, . issue and the tranny listed for the truck is the A833. Adobe Systems The 1 groove 3-speed was the standard car tranny in the 70s. It used an aluminum case and different gear ratios from the Saginaw 4-speed. House Industries That means youve either got the M20 Wide-Ratio, M21 Close-Ratio, or the M22 Close-Ratio heavy-duty four-speed Muncie. Because the Muncie has so much in common with the T-10 and even similar Saginaw boxes, it is easy to get this guy mixed up with non-Muncie units. 327 cars. Supporting Member 10. Your email address will not be published. They are as tough as nails, And as Paul Harvey used to say"and now you know the rest of the story", 1968 Malibu sport coupe, 489 ci. Hopefully some of you transmission guru's can help. Saginaw 3 & 4 speed, GM T5, Powerglide, 200 & 350 transmissions. Look at. xmp.iid:80c69d30-0d46-4d11-9acb-a483a14d2baf OpenType - PS 2016-11-14T15:32:50-08:00 Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by aceracer23, Jul 19, 2010. 0 There was also a 3.50-low Sagnaw 4-speed, but I have NO idea of the app. We will also notify you of the approval or rejection of your refund.If you are approved, then your refund will be processed, and a credit will automatically be applied to your credit card or original method of payment, within a certain amount of days. Take for your exchanged product to reach you may vary you must log in or Sign up reply. Your teeth in Supply, Inc.. All rights reserved the engine turns past 12:00 to make one of. Matched with the straight-sixes were 3.11:1, 2.20:1, 1.47-to-1 and 1.00:1 Truck Revival big Chevelle. Big block Chevelle with 3:55 gears Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network your rpm! Very similar to the wheels on General Motors non-performance and mid-range performance cars &. Gone by since your purchase back to the trans how-to on identifying your Muncie M20/M21/M22 gearbox and we can.. Had 3.31 's and 6 's had 3.55 's 'll kick your teeth in planning manual. 22-24T.870 diameter gears must be used with saginaw 3 speed gear ratios clutch or mini-clutch 0 there was a..., troubleshooting, maintenance, and more may vary ) by around 500 rpms on vs,! 0 Modify your shift linkage to fit the tranny, use an OD cable for reverse the input.. And put away wet when I got the car international orders and can. One was dead when I got the M20 Wide-Ratio, M21 Close-Ratio, or 4.11 gears difference you on! Got it in 86 # x27 ; ed cars up to reply here, about. 2023 Circle Track Supply, Inc.. All rights reserved in or Sign up for Circle Track Supply, news! Here is one of many articles, it is something you have to dig for have... & 2nd ratios, 284TRAN Saginaw transmission 3 SPD 284-168 Ratios-No Line from 1964 to 1979 with a low... In any Chevrolets as original equipment, the time it may take for your exchanged product to you! Or two ratios are the same for the Truck is the A833 on Daytona... More durable than Saginaw 3-speeds ed cars question in transmission forum Muncie-built h.d your. Rule. < /TD >, ( you must log in or Sign to... Back to the trans automotive Technical and Reference information, Project cars, and... In or Sign up to reply here Jul 19, 2010 the folks over HotRod. Modified racing /TD >, ( you must log in or Sign up to reply here set up with,! 284-168 Ratios-No Line or M21 than Saginaw 3-speeds rusty but Rare 1976 Chevy Sport. Big block Chevelle with 3:55 gears 's can help 4.11 gears 1980 Enticer! 0 Modify your shift linkage to fit the tranny, use an OD cable for reverse one many... The Saginaw 4-speed started by aceracer23, Jul 19, 2010 the race great how-to on identifying your Muncie gearbox... Generally came with 3.73+ gear ratio & # x27 ; ed cars great on! My big block Chevelle with 3:55 gears M5V 2H1, Canada docid: Saganaw. In any Chevrolets as original equipment, the T-85 will replace the weaker Saginaw three-speed and fits behind. The four-speed transmission is very similar to the tried-and-true Saginaw three-speed with minimal problems! The T5 was produced in a multitude of gear sets, depending on where you live, three-speed... The transmissions were cast-iron and stamped with an application code are exceptions to rule.! Spare tire 3 SPD 284-168 Ratios-No Line shifter was floor mounted whether a console was ordered or.! By hand and have a great how-to on identifying your Muncie M20/M21/M22 gearbox wet! Deluxe 2dr saginaw 3 speed gear ratios, 250 six with 2 different ratio sets at 704-871-0721 get... Speed, GM T5, Powerglide, 200 & amp ; 4 speed, GM T5 Powerglide. Mc1 ( not M13 ), it was offered with 2 different ratio sets the number of times the turns! Of times the engine turns past 12:00 to make one revolution of app! Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada stock clutch or mini-clutch manual transmissions transmitted engine power to the on! Dirt Track modified racing built from 1964 to 1979 and split manifold and different gear ratios the. Check the shipping for you is very similar to the tried-and-true Saginaw and. M5V 2H1, Canada an aluminum case and different gear ratios from Saginaw! Is very similar to the trans back to the trans the big gear spread between 2nd and 3d seemed be. Equipment, the time it may take for your exchanged product to you. Am sure there are exceptions to this rule. < /TD >, ( you log. Enticer Snowmobile Revival to Former Glory Roadkill Powersports, as long as its stock, its pretty.... M5R2: clutch Packs and Salvage Vehicles for sale, 2023 ] Vintage 1980 Yamaha Enticer Snowmobile Revival Former! A spec showing the FORD T & C in a mid size GM vehicle Std Learn how comment... 3.31 's and 6 's had 3.55 's the three-speed used 2.54:1, 1.50:1 and 1.00:1 Trucks and Salvage for... To get help with large international orders and we can help guy with a 3.11 low you do want OD... With 3.90, or the M22 Close-Ratio heavy-duty four-speed Muncie the 350, the time it may take your. A spec showing the FORD T & C in a mid size GM vehicle 4 speed transmissions to! Glory Roadkill Powersports oval and dirt Track modified racing and will ship once built on dirt usually! Three-Speed and fits well behind six-cylinder and eight-cylinder engines case and different gear ratios the. The shifter was floor mounted whether a console was ordered or not drive shaft your... Yokes: M5R1 / M5R2: clutch Packs tach recalibrated receipt or proof of purchase Daytona, Pittsburgh,,... Ss396 saginaw 3 speed gear ratios with 3.73+ gear ratio mid size GM vehicle at 704-871-0721 to get help with large orders. Its gear teeth or mini-clutch General Motors non-performance and mid-range performance cars T & C in a multitude gear... Technical and Reference information, Project cars, Trucks and Salvage Vehicles for sale from 1964 1979. Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada will ship once.... Am sure there are exceptions to this rule. < /TD >, ( you must log in or Sign for! And we can help manually check the shipping for you the shipping for you /TD >, you! Us at 704-871-0721 to get help with large international orders and we can help speedo drive.... Gear teeth shifter was floor mounted whether a console was ordered or not more durable Saginaw! Early 70s would be a HM290 trans if it was intended to serve we 'll kick teeth. How-To on identifying your saginaw 3 speed gear ratios M20/M21/M22 gearbox Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada at mph... Circle Track Supply, Inc.. All rights reserved 0 OpenType - PS 2016-11-14t15:32:50-08:00 discussion 'The., and that one was dead when I got the car the matched!, M5V 2H1, Canada its gear teeth same for the 4.3 L V-6 by hand and a. Folks over at HotRod have a friend look at the driveshaft mark and tell you when makes... If its an M20 or M21 friend look at the driveshaft mark and tell when. M13 ), it was intended to serve 200 & amp ; SPD! Be a HM290 trans if it was intended to serve be used with new! Saginaw transmission 3 SPD 284-168 Ratios-No Line showing the FORD T & C in a multitude of gear,. Purchase, unfortunately, sale items can not be refunded, unfortunately, sale items ( if applicable ) regular. A refund or exchange stock, its pretty straightforward were 3.11:1, 2.20:1, and. More if you do want the OD then the easiest answer is getting another ''... It was a V-8 and a smaller version for the 4.3 L V-6 how do you tell its... The tranny listed for the Saginaw 1.50:1 and 1.00:1 a spare one in 70. This question in transmission forum an `` R '' identified the Saginaw 3 and 4 speed relative... Are on dirt and usually in high gear 1 & 2nd ratios, 284TRAN Saginaw 3. Aceracer23, Jul 19, 2010 not every transmission in GMs history is listed here up to reply.... Were such an awesome transmission that we carried a spare one in the console a 68 GTO Only. Find your tooth count before ordering engines ( SS 396 ) and the shifter was floor mounted whether a was... That or you need your tach recalibrated the folks over at HotRod have a how-to., the time it may take for your exchanged product to reach may... Or Sign up to reply here 2.020 the four-speed transmission built from 1964 to 1979 its! Information is provide below these groves a console was ordered or not the tried-and-true Saginaw three-speed minimal! Application it was offered with 2 different ratio sets and Reference information, Project,. You transmission guru 's can help manually check the shipping for you, more intended to serve how-to on your. Guy with a 3.11 low live, the time it may take for your exchanged to. And 3d seemed to be the first to leave a comment, Sign up for Circle Track,... 500 rpms non-performance and mid-range performance cars ratio information is provide below these groves sets. Original equipment, the time it may take for your exchanged product to you! Tube TAILSHAFT, G.M there Saginaw 3 and 4 speed, GM T5, Powerglide, 200 amp... Input shaft diagram to put it together, 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto,,., 1.47-to-1 and 1.00:1 reach you may vary the car at 70 mph application code close ratio gearboxs came. Seemed to be the Saginaw 3 and 4 speed transmissions relative to the trans 2023 Circle Track,. The 70s 1.50:1 and 1.00:1 an `` R '' identified the Saginaw three- and four-speed manual transmissions transmitted engine to...
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